Official forums for BZFlag.org

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:26 pm**

The Red Baron wrote:I agree with you CBG, As far as I know, We've always gotten along. Thanks to your understanding, patience and a tolerance of my ~larts and pitchforks thrown in your general direction.

Pardon my online appearance. It was not my intention to be arrogant and boasting. You and I do get along, and I hope you understand, that I'm not like that - to be boasting and arrogant.

That said, I believe we can continue in our "getting along," and still agree to disagree on a few subjects. like this one for example.

I think one needs to separate the technical aspects of Mouse VS keyboard, from the Personal Aspects/taste. The case is easily made, that the personal aspect/taste is what matters the most. However, Personal aspects/tastes are rarely worth discussing, or even easily discussed, especially online. in the end, everyone excuses, justifies, rationalizes and ends the discussion by saying something cliche like, "well, its just me." "its how I operate." "Thats how I like to work." Etc etc.

I must ask a pardon, seeing as I have done a poor job in my posts, in outlining the separation of there personal and technical aspects.

And I think you do me an injustice. I'm not speaking of absolute conclusiveness. Life is full of exceptions. I don't have tables, numbers, graphs, charts, etc etc, of hardcore evidence. Just mere observation, gathered over 9 years. I do not like to "tote" or throw about my length of playing this game. But when I make statements, I have to back them up right? or else I could be just making stuff up. I'm letting the reader know the source of my info.

permit me another opportunity to sum up the debate, and aspects of mouse and keyboard.

Mouse - it is more complex - harder to master. it has a greater spectrum of customization, with varying mouse speeds, mouse box sizes, acceleration settings. It has a broader range of motion on a plan. You have a plethora of mice types, and a greater scope of agility, when you start throwing in multiple directional changes. reverse, forward, full right turn, forward twitch, reverse twitch, quick left hand twitch. The rapid forward/reverse tank movements of dodging.

keyboard - Its very simple. 2 speeds. the simplicity of the keyboard, is its defining aspect. All keyboards are "alike" (yes used broadly, please lets not nit-pick minute discrepancies). Forward, reverse, left turn, right turn. Half speed, full speed. mouse box has no affect. the user has no control over the response of the keyboard - like one does with a mouse.

There are different aspects to them.

Now pardon me once again (am I running out of pardons yet?) But to reply to the last part of your post. Pick out a keyboard player, and lets run him/her against Mikkel, Skit or Red Baron2. not on just 1 map. every Map possible.

You outline how a mouse is more complex than the keyboard in terms of bzflag. I don't see any correlation between the most complex and the "best".

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:51 pm**

BWD wrote:
A Vicious Muffin wrote:Mouse would win. I know that. I can tell you right now. I think most of the veterans use mouse. Am I wrong?
I use the keyboard 100%. I always have. It gives me faster and more accurate control of the tank because less complex hand movements are required.

...You should have had 13 years to practice moving your hand.

Once you learn how to use the move correctly, your performance will go up by 50+%.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:40 pm**

No matter what, it depends on the skill of the player. A mouse player would have no advantage against a keyboard player, granted the keyboard player knows how to use it well. I myself am a mouse player, because I thought it was the only way to play when I started.

Some people can think that keyboard is the only way when they join instead, so one is not better than another.

Posted: **Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:00 pm**

I agree with Baron on one point, we should separate preferences from facts.

Yes the mouse has thousands of variations from slow to fast, but I don't need that many. If I want to jump onto a box at close range i hit 'q' -spacebar-'q' (and add a little spin if I want to) as quickly and accurately as a mouse player can. I know when to jump because there are only the two speeds available to me. On the mouse, I imagine you are constantly guessing.. "okay, how close do I have to be for this mouse position, when do I jump when I'm going at a quarter-speed, etc.."

The benefit of the keyboard, /me thinks, is the accuracy provided when one is sitting still, i.e. sniping. I can concentrate on my radar, knowing that when I am touching nothing, I am still, I can tap tap to the right a bit without my tank drifting forward or backward.

I admit I haven't used mouse much, but I don't think we can get an unbiased answer from someone who claims to have mastered both. Who says each was mastered? Was the keyboard configured well? What maps did they play? Were they using the right technique?

I propose a kind of World Cup on an agreed upon map with keyboard players versus mousers. That would draw a crowd.

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:15 pm**

Win Xp wrote:
BWD wrote:
A Vicious Muffin wrote:Mouse would win. I know that. I can tell you right now. I think most of the veterans use mouse. Am I wrong?
I use the keyboard 100%. I always have. It gives me faster and more accurate control of the tank because less complex hand movements are required.
...You should have had 13 years to practice moving your hand.

Once you learn how to use the move correctly, your performance will go up by 50+%.

My skill level with a mouse has nothing to do with me using the keyboard. I'm equally skilled in both. When you use a mouse, it takes a complex range of motions in your hand and arm. When using a keyboard, you are only using your fingers. Things get done faster with a keyboard.

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:20 pm**

Tedius wrote:I propose a kind of World Cup on an agreed upon map with keyboard players versus mousers. That would draw a crowd.

I'd be happy to help in setting this up. If we can agree on a map, I'll set it up GU-style (no superflags), then we can have two matches. First is CTF, second is FFA.

Sound good?

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:33 pm**

TangenT wrote:I'd be happy to help in setting this up. If we can agree on a map, I'll set it up GU-style (no superflags), then we can have two matches. First is CTF, second is FFA.

Sound good?

it does sound good!

You would have to pick a select few "Mouse Players" and "Keyboard Players" though.

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:35 pm**

What if you end up with someone like dax, who is good with keys, but then have two crappy mouse players?

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:54 pm**

Win Xp, I'll look around and find the best of both. The Red Baron and CBG are invited to play.

Let's get a list together of the so-called Best players on mouse, and the best on keyboard.

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:33 pm**

I have to decline the offer, I'm afraid.
I really just don't play enough bz anymore, my leet skillz have been slipping.

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:21 am**

I've got a list of 4-5 keyboard players that I consider good(not including myself of course ;). Most play at Louman's Lasermania, I'm sure we'd agree to meet a team of mousers there.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:03 pm**

If I want accuracy keyboard.If I want speed mouse.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:15 am**

I wanna play!!!!!!

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:19 am**

i play with keyboar

I like lasermania

Posted: **Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:15 pm**

I used the keyboard for a long time, then I switched to mouse.

tons better

whats up guys

Posted: **Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:16 am**

What's happening with that "Mousers Vs Keyboarders"? The outcome of it doesn't mean much to me, I don't think we need this to prove which style is "Best", I just think this will be alot of fun!

TangenT wrote:I'd be happy to help in setting this up. If we can agree on a map, I'll set it up GU-style (no superflags), then we can have two matches. First is CTF, second is FFA.

If this is still going ahead, I'd like to vote for:
-Hix map for CTF
-And for FFA, umm perhaps Ducati map

Obviously there mustn't be ANY superflags.

Posted: **Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:20 pm**

mouse better sensitivity

Posted: **Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:48 pm**

A Distraction wrote:What I do is I use both the mouse and the keyboard:

Me too. I started out using mouse, but then I got worried about pains in the arm. Now I do the following.
left hand
Mouse movement: Moving, and turning the tank
Mouse buttons: unused
Right hand
j: Fire
k: jump
i: Drop flag
l: Identify
And others

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:08 am**

TML
Wouldn't it be left hand keys, right hand mouse? Or do you use a left-handed mouse..

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:43 am**

Hannibal wrote:TML
Wouldn't it be left hand keys, right hand mouse? Or do you use a left-handed mouse..

I tried both, but it works best, when I use my right hand for firing and jumping. I think that the fire button requires better reflexes than moving the tank around.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:11 pm**

So do you have your hands crossed, or switch the side the mouse is on?

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:37 pm**

I generally like keyboard for most FPS games but the way BZflag does mouse control is very intuitive and well done. I can't see myself playing BZflag without the mouse anymore.

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:49 pm**

Hannibal wrote:So do you have your hands crossed, or switch the side the mouse is on?

I switch the side the mouse is on. My mouse is very symmetric, so I can do this without problems

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:54 pm**

my apple Extended kb has two USB ports on either side, suiting the needs of left landed players and right handed players. of course, just because your left handed doesn't mean you need the mouse on the left side. or you may just like the mouse in a different location then most, as i've said before i like the mouse because it's more sensitve, highly controlled jumps are possible, which is essential in some gameplay

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:03 pm**

Highly controlled are possible with the keyboard also.

Official forums for BZFlag.org

Mouse Vs. Keyboard