BZEthics: Observers
- jftsang
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BZEthics: Observers
Sometimes a teammate joins the Observer team (or even the enemies) and then feeds details to us such as "ST base" or such, or even shoot their teammates to help us. Is this ethical behaviour?
> Sometimes a teammate joins the Observer team (or even the enemies) and then feeds details to us such
> as "ST base"...
It depends. On places such as the GU League, where you actually have permanent teammates, this is a very good strategy. Such a "coach" can make or break the team, by viewing things that other may miss. But TKing is always bad.
Just my thoughts.
> as "ST base"...
It depends. On places such as the GU League, where you actually have permanent teammates, this is a very good strategy. Such a "coach" can make or break the team, by viewing things that other may miss. But TKing is always bad.
Just my thoughts.
- Triumph of the Soul
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Just because you can give one team an unfair advantage, doesn't mean you should. I don't believe there is a such thing as a "permanent team mate", but if there is, they shouldn't express their affinity during a match they don't directly participate in. You can't always count on the other team having similar "permanent team mates", or even an equal number of them.F687/s wrote:> Sometimes a teammate joins the Observer team (or even the enemies) and then feeds details to us such
> as "ST base"...
It depends. On places such as the GU League, where you actually have permanent teammates, this is a very good strategy. Such a "coach" can make or break the team, by viewing things that other may miss. But TKing is always bad.
Just my thoughts.
And one question F687/s:
> Why do you quote like this...
>
Just something that's been on my mind.When you could press a button and quote like this?
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- Joe-Schmoe
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If the teams are full, I can easily see Observers feeding hints being ok. The advantage given by such an observer is probably minimal, and the observer can have fun by contributing to the battle.
Sometimes I single out a player to follow and give advice. However, when I do this I usually set the observer mode to "following", so that I don't have any information the player doesn't have.
There is a related problem: people join the observer team to force the hand of the FairCTF plugin, preventing a legitimate capture.
Sometimes I single out a player to follow and give advice. However, when I do this I usually set the observer mode to "following", so that I don't have any information the player doesn't have.
There is a related problem: people join the observer team to force the hand of the FairCTF plugin, preventing a legitimate capture.
Join MI6!
By "permanent team mate," I was kind of speaking of league team mates. But if you're just going to be an observer on Missile Wars (or something similar), I don't think that holds nearly as much importance. Maybe if you give out hints to both teams, but that's not really that much fun to either team. Observers are made to observeA Distraction wrote:Just because you can give one team an unfair advantage, doesn't mean you should. I don't believe there is a such thing as a "permanent team mate", but if there is, they shouldn't express their affinity during a match they don't directly participate in. You can't always count on the other team having similar "permanent team mates", or even an equal number of them.
Mainly because I also frequent a few boards that do not allow direct quoting (mostly homebrew forums software). I do use the built-in quoting if I need to quote large pieces of text, but it takes a lot less time (for me) to quote things using the first way, especially if I want to quote multiple people.A Distraction wrote: And one question F687/s:
> Why do you quote like this...
>
Just something that's been on my mind.When you could press a button and quote like this?
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Yes its pretty common, today, someone used geno on his own team and then switched sides, that is really unfair, but observing and giving hints is fair if the teams are full, seems okay.Some servers should have rules on this sort of thing if they want, and me personally, think they should.
just saying
just saying
I consider it unethical to pass information on as an observer that the player could not otherwise know.
Offering strategic advice isn't a problem because it allows the recipient to become a better player over time and it is something a better player may already know as the recipient.
But alerting of a stealth position because the observer can utilise how the observation process works is the equivalent of using a cheat client to see the tanks that are supposed to be stealthed on their radar. If I caught an observer doing this then I would not hesitate to sanction a removal of the observer from the server.
Offering strategic advice isn't a problem because it allows the recipient to become a better player over time and it is something a better player may already know as the recipient.
But alerting of a stealth position because the observer can utilise how the observation process works is the equivalent of using a cheat client to see the tanks that are supposed to be stealthed on their radar. If I caught an observer doing this then I would not hesitate to sanction a removal of the observer from the server.
"Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin paid; mostly only when I'm gettin paid. But eating people alive, when does that get fun?"
I have to agree with RexFlex. I have been thinking about this for a while and hadn't come up with a good analogy. RexFlex hit the nail right on the head. IMHO, under ansolutely no circumstances is passing information on to a team, that they (the team) does not have access to through their own client(s) (at that point in time), ethical. A teammate can say ST behind you... but an observer with all seeing powers is quite unfair.
PS. I was the admin mentioned above that kicked an observer for passing on just this type of information
PS. I was the admin mentioned above that kicked an observer for passing on just this type of information
There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity. -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
"How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg." -- Abraham Lincoln
"How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg." -- Abraham Lincoln
I also agree with RexFlex. The observers using roaming in the correct way can see every thing going on in the battle field wheather it be ST or someone about to turn the corner to snipe with laser. It should not be allowed for an observer with massive seeing abilities to call the shots in battle. Helping with strategies is fine but giving away unfair information such as Rex said about the cheat client analogy is exactly that. It is cheating. Because you are swaying the game in someone's (or in some cases some team's) favor. If I'm not mistaken that is what most cheats do...