Official forums for BZFlag.org

So here's my idea for a new game style...

Maps will generally contain more than two bases... on average about eight, I'm guessing. Each base will have an "owner" team (much like they do now), and one flag (each "base flag" will be permanently affiliated with its base... one flag per base). The object of the game will be to take over all of the bases. A base can be taken over by taking its flag to an already-owned base, hence "capturing" the base (much like flags are captured today). When all of the bases are captured by one team, it is considered a victory for that team.

A few things yet to be figured out...
1. Whether a flag flies back to its base after capture, or stays with the capturing tank instead
2. Whether all (or most) bases will start out as "rogue bases" to be captured by either team, or whether they will be allocated evenly to each team (by the server or dictated by the map file). This also might be optional, determined by a config option
3. Whether the server will boot all of the players after a map is won, or continue gameplay (something like the -gameover (I think)) option.
4. Whether there will be a way for enemies to capture a base without having one of their own... don't quite know how/if this could be done well.

Thoughts? I think that a truly new gamestyle would really help BZFlag popularity right now. If people like the idea, maybe I'll code this up over the summer.

Constitution wrote:So here's my idea for a new game style...

Maps will generally contain more than two bases... on average about eight, I'm guessing. Each base will have an "owner" team (much like they do now), and one flag (each "base flag" will be permanently affiliated with its base... one flag per base). The object of the game will be to take over all of the bases. A base can be taken over by taking its flag to an already-owned base, hence "capturing" the base (much like flags are captured today). When all of the bases are captured by one team, it is considered a victory for that team.

A few things yet to be figured out...
1. Whether a flag flies back to its base after capture, or stays with the capturing tank instead
2. Whether all (or most) bases will start out as "rogue bases" to be captured by either team, or whether they will be allocated evenly to each team (by the server or dictated by the map file). This also might be optional, determined by a config option
3. Whether the server will boot all of the players after a map is won, or continue gameplay (something like the -gameover (I think)) option.
4. Whether there will be a way for enemies to capture a base without having one of their own... don't quite know how/if this could be done well.

Thoughts? I think that a truly new gamestyle would really help BZFlag popularity right now. If people like the idea, maybe I'll code this up over the summer.

I kind of like the idea...
In response to point 4:
If you get a percentage of your team (or a fixed number, it would depend on the number of players) on that base while none of the owners of that base are there, you capture it. Maybe you would have to "hold" it for a period of time, again, that could depend on player numbers.

One thing I would say though, is that this whole idea could be a little confusing, certainly overbearing for some new players.
It'd turn out a lot like AHOD where hardly anyone new what to do. I remember being an admin at a server running AHOD and I was sending messages with instructions to every player every few minutes. Playing, for me, was out of the question there. If I played, nobody else did...
I do like the idea personally though.

Yea, constantly telling players what the map is about/ rules of the map does get annoying. Despite the fact the -srvmsg and -admsg tells you to type "/help map" or whatever it may be, people still constantly ask you Again, like another topic about getting players to register, perhaps making this a map where only registered players can use. It would stop most cheaters and tkrs.

Back in the day Boxy Wars used to be for registered players only and if you weren't registered you would be randomly kicked any moment. That's what got me to register. Perhaps adopting this would help both topics.


Now, for my opinion on this. Like CBG I like this idea, but it could get very confusing. You need teammwork and players to actually attempt to capture a 'base' rather than just roaming random bases killing every one in sight.

Constitution wrote:3. Whether the server will boot all of the players after a map is won, or continue gameplay (something like the -gameover (I think)) option.

Yea that would be cool. Once all Bases are captured, perhaps not booting all the players would be such a good idea. Just, killing everyone and sending them all to their ?Original Base?.

Does each team have a 'Master Base'? Some place each team has to spawn, or do they spawn at a base they have taken over, or do they just spawn anywhere randomly on the map?
I suggest having 1 master base, which is different to all the other bases in that it looks different, perhaps protected in some way. Also the only way to capture the 'Master Base' is to capture all/some number of bases.

Heaps of ideas spring to mind I don't want to go on though, it's getting late.

Nyt Nyt

I like the idea, but you need a way to make it visible which team owns which base. Ideally this information should be visible on the screen as well as on the radar. Here are 3 rough ideas for how to achieve this:

1) Is it possible for a plugin to give each team several team flags? Then you can implement CannonBallGuy's idea by using team flags to mark the owner of each base. These team flags should serve only as markers so they should be impossible to pick up.

2) Constitutions idea would also be easier to understand if each base contained a team flag belonging to the owner of the base. Perhaps all teams could start with 4 flags that spawned in the middle. A team could win by placing their team flags on 3 separate bases. Whenever a team flag was placed a base all existing team flags on that base could fly back into the middle. That would ensure that each base contained exacly one flag.

3) Finally you could rule that a team owned a base as long as the team had at least one tank standing on the base. In other words you should lose a base by leaving it, and it should be possible for several teams to own the same a base at the same time. The benifit of this idea is that it is is fairly easy to implement, and that you can always use the radar to see which team is close to winning. Of course the gameplay might be a bit chaotic it might be boring for some tanks to sit and defend bases that are not being attacked.

This reminds me very much of Advance Wars (which I've only ever played once), where you tried to take over cities.

This would be like CTF but with a lot of bases that can change ownership. Ideally, the bases should change color, but that's going to need some changes to BZFlag. Fortunately, it's a good time do do so

I like the idea of a Risk-like, territory-conquering map. It would take teamwork and strategy, two things I'd like to see more of in BZLand. How does this scenario sound?:

Red versus Green. Eight blue island bases surrounding a central island. Flags can only be captured if you have at least 1 other teammate already on that base (AHOD style).

So, you have to have conquered a base in order to capture a flag, the more bases your teammates occupy, the easier it should be to capture the flag. Basically it would be AHOD with numerous blue bases and a different kill on cap schema.

CannonBallGuy wrote:If you get a percentage of your team (or a fixed number, it would depend on the number of players) on that base while none of the owners of that base are there, you capture it. Maybe you would have to "hold" it for a period of time, again, that could depend on player numbers.

That's one idea. However, like you mention later, this idea gets confusing to people as it gets more and more complex. On the other hand, I don't think the basic concept is really all that confusing. Take a flag that's not your color to a base that is your color to capture a base! Not really all that more complicated than CTF, IMHO. I would probably be in favor of not allowing players to capture a base without having one of their own (they would be considered eliminated at that point). Depending on the number of bases, this would probably keep the ideal number of teams down at two or three.

Personally, I find the concept simpler than AHOD... but maybe it's not. As far as the newbies are concerned... well... even CTF can be confusing at first. :-P

Grace F wrote:Does each team have a 'Master Base'? Some place each team has to spawn, or do they spawn at a base they have taken over, or do they just spawn anywhere randomly on the map?
I suggest having 1 master base, which is different to all the other bases in that it looks different, perhaps protected in some way. Also the only way to capture the 'Master Base' is to capture all/some number of bases.

I'm thinking more along the lines of all bases being equal. Players, like you said, will possibly spawn only on their bases (maybe). This would make the game a lot like Tremulous and some others, where you need bases in order to spawn players. This adds another complex element to the game, though, so perhaps it's not such a good idea.

too much loving wrote:I like the idea, but you need a way to make it visible which team owns which base. Ideally this information should be visible on the screen as well as on the radar. Here are 3 rough ideas for how to achieve this:

You could tell what team a base is owned by by looking at it on the main screen or radar... just like CTF, it will be the color of its owner team. Its color will change when captured. When you pick up a flag for a base that isn't owned by you, you will get a message saying "you picked up the flag for base ???" (with some way to identify the base), and the base would blink on your radar for as long as your carrying the flag. Sound good for a way to identify a base?

Tedius wrote:Red versus Green. Eight blue island bases surrounding a central island. Flags can only be captured if you have at least 1 other teammate already on that base (AHOD style).

So, you have to have conquered a base in order to capture a flag, the more bases your teammates occupy, the easier it should be to capture the flag. Basically it would be AHOD with numerous blue bases and a different kill on cap schema.

That's an idea, but as mentioned earlier in this post, I want to keep things as simple as possible. Even in CTF games, players frequently ignore the CTF aspect and just shoot each other... and, sometimes a player will capture a flag from start to finish all by himself. I wouldn't want to take that away. I'm still looking for a good way to make bases "valuable" to the players other than just guaranteeing them that the enemy won't win... maybe making players spawn only on their bases is a good idea after all.

Constitution wrote: You could tell what team a base is owned by by looking at it on the main screen or radar... just like CTF, it will be the color of its owner team. Its color will change when captured. When you pick up a flag for a base that isn't owned by you, you will get a message saying "you picked up the flag for base ???" (with some way to identify the base), and the base would blink on your radar for as long as your carrying the flag. Sound good for a way to identify a base?

That sounds fine. So if the server allowed plugins to change the color of a base, then most of the rule sets suggested in this thread could be implemented as plugins.

Then we could also implement "Simon says" with tanks and guns.... and mine sweeper

In stead of making some elaborate rules for why not keep things simple? Imo, that's where BZFlag's power lies. So let's not do the Risk style rules, but (just like CTF) make it "Bring the Flag"(BTF).

For simplicity let's supose a game with red and blue.
- You can capture the "unoccupied bases" by bringing your flag to that base.
- Idea: When you bring your flag to a base that is occupied by the opposite team, the base turns back to "unoccupied" and the flag goes back to the start-base.
- Problem: YOU HAVE ONLY 1 FLAG. Ooh, strategy! That's such a drag!
- Game ends when all bases are yours.

We'll have to figure out how to prevent a team entrenching themselves on one base. That would be a totally boring strategy.