Is radar too good, or 1st person view too useless?

[Joop]

thats correct hannibal...and i was refering to the 3D aspect of the game

i wasn't talking about the radar

[Kesnar]

I think that without the radar we would die very fast but without HUD we may can't shoot exactly at our target.
So none of them must go.

[CUPCAKE]

Without the window view, it wouldn't be the popular 3D tank game, would it?

[Kesnar]

Well, I think that radar is very useful and it's too hard to play without it but without HUD we can't hit exactly at the target.Expect that without HUD it would be boring to play.

[CUPCAKE]

Try to imagine how boring the game would be if all you cauld see was the radar... Just 2D dots with squares around them telling you how high the dots are from the ground... Would be all that exciting, would it?

[The Red Baron]

Try to imagine how boring the game would be if all you cauld see was the radar... Just 2D dots with squares around them telling you how high the dots are from the ground... Would be all that exciting, would it?

You've got it all wrong...

Try to imagine the explosive potential of every player, if there was only a radar.

[Joop]

i totally agree with you cupcake

[rolling_blunder]

i'm not sure anyone is getting my point.

Try to imagine how boring the game would be if all you cauld see was the radar... Just 2D dots with squares around them telling you how high the dots are from the ground... Would be all that exciting, would it?

well, what i'm trying to say is THAT'S THE GAME WE'RE PLAYING! and it gets a little old.

my point is this: shouldn't there be tools so that a map-maker or server host could control the power of the radar?

right now the only tool is to turn it off completely.

adding some radar limitations as options for maps would be simple and could make the 3D part stronger and (more importantly) would make for some really fun new gameplay styles.

[blast]

my point is this: shouldn't there be tools so that a map-maker or server host could control the power of the radar?

right now the only tool is to turn it off completely.

adding some radar limitations as options for maps would be simple and could make the 3D part stronger and (more importantly) would make for some really fun new gameplay styles.

Actually, turning it off is only one thing that maps/servers can do:
1. There is a "noradar" setting for materials can can then be applied to objects. This makes those objects not appear on the radar. This can be used to conceal a hidden area or path, or to just improve performance with complex objects.
2. The same BZDB variable that turns off the radar (_radarLimit) can be used to adjust the range of the radar.

[meeba]

AFAIK, you can make the radar very limited.

[The Red Baron]

my point is this: shouldn't there be tools so that a map-maker or server host could control the power of the radar?

right now the only tool is to turn it off completely.

adding some radar limitations as options for maps would be simple and could make the 3D part stronger and (more importantly) would make for some really fun new gameplay styles.

Actually, turning it off is only one thing that maps/servers can do:
1. There is a "noradar" setting for materials can can then be applied to objects. This makes those objects not appear on the radar. This can be used to conceal a hidden area or path, or to just improve performance with complex objects.
2. The same BZDB variable that turns off the radar (_radarLimit) can be used to adjust the range of the radar.

ug ug ug.

[CUPCAKE]

rolling blunder, we aren't just playing a 2D game. I can barely aim at all without the 3D view! I don't know about you, but I'm still playing a 3D game.

[dango]

i use radar when dodging and for rico, for head on shooting i always use 3d view. there are a lot of times when a tank is right in front of me.

[Joop]

yeah...i do the same...

but i like your point rolling blunder...i think they should definity do something about that

[asciimonster]

Actually, turning it off is only one thing that maps/servers can do:
1. There is a "noradar" setting for materials can can then be applied to objects. This makes those objects not appear on the radar. This can be used to conceal a hidden area or path, or to just improve performance with complex objects.
(...)

But the tank near those concealed objects are show aren't they?

Right now, if you are in a cavern/buiding and ricohet is on, you are a sitting duck. If you could introduce "safe havens", where other tanks don't see you until they are very close, you could do a more guerilla tactic.

Also the radar now is square, but in real life radar is round. Wouldn't it be more realistic if the radar would show the map, but only the tanks within x virtual metres from you?

[meeba]

But the tank near those concealed objects are show aren't they?

Right now, if you are in a cavern/buiding and ricohet is on, you are a sitting duck. If you could introduce "safe havens", where other tanks don't see you until they are very close, you could do a more guerilla tactic.

And of course, seer would be able to see these hiding tanks, as well? Either way, I think this is a cool idea, asciimonster.

[The Red Baron]

Actually, turning it off is only one thing that maps/servers can do:
1. There is a "noradar" setting for materials can can then be applied to objects. This makes those objects not appear on the radar. This can be used to conceal a hidden area or path, or to just improve performance with complex objects.
(...)

But the tank near those concealed objects are show aren't they?

Right now, if you are in a cavern/buiding and ricohet is on, you are a sitting duck. If you could introduce "safe havens", where other tanks don't see you until they are very close, you could do a more guerilla tactic.

Also the radar now is square, but in real life radar is round. Wouldn't it be more realistic if the radar would show the map, but only the tanks within x virtual metres from you?

and wouldn't it be more realistic, if tanks couldn't jump, much less fly, where effected by inertia and could not change directions so quickly, or were crushed when they fell from great heights, or that they can't drive through each other.

or how about, can we leave the radar alone, for the sake of two huge leagues that rely on it. Http://my.bzflag.org/league and http://www.gu.bzleague.com

[asciimonster]

And what is the point you are making, Red Baron? Did you mean this sacasticly and hate the idea? Or are you just pointing out that the rest of the game is not that realistic either so why should the radar be realistic?

In case of the latter: I agree. However the square radar adds a strange effect to the mix. When range is limited the fact that you can see an object depends on your orientation (if a corner of the radar is pointed at the object). I also beleive that playing with the radar visibility (other than on/off/range) might improve gameplay.

TangenT: It goes without saying that the SE flag shows all!

[The Red Baron]

asciimonster

yes, I was being sarcastic and I hate the idea of limiting the radar, and the basis for limiting the radar, to "make it more realistic" is absurd. there is nothing realistic about bzflag. Lets remain consistent in our logic.

and could you explain your radar visibility comment? on how it might improve gameplay. Are you referring to "hiding" spots on the maps for tanks? that they do not show up on the radar? stealth blocks that stealth the tank?

Or do you mean something else?

yes, the radar is powerful? why do you want to wreck/limit it? no, I'm not just asking you this question, i'm asking it of everyone who wants to change it. Why? Is it that you don't like to use it, or can't use? and therefore want to limit how everyone else uses it? Are you bored by it? is it because you abhor 2D? What are the logical reasons to change it? Its war, you have a really big gun, smart bombs, or a powerful plane, or a clean nuke... why not use them?

[jack]

Most of us can't use radar to rico off pyramids, as †hey show up as boxes in the current mode

there is a mode that can show you its shape so it shows the tip of the pyramid in the middle in a different color so you see different colors for different heights.

[Davy Jones]

There is no way to tell if it is a pyramid or not, (IF, you've never played it before and was only looking at radar) I believe you are referring to the "Enhanced" radar. And it doesn't show different colors for different shapes, i think it is based on a unit height only...and it shades it differently, that's all

[The Red Baron]

you can too, tell if its a pyramid or not, just by looking at the radar, if you have the "Fast sorted" option. It has an altitude distinction via, diagramed by different colors.

Jack is right. The color will change incrementally, not as a block.

[dango]

That's why i always use teh fast or fast sorted radars. I hate trying to rico off pyrs.

PS: it's not just fast sorted, it's fast also.

[asciimonster]

yes, the radar is powerful?

Yes, I think it is too powerful. That's why I'm making these suggestions.

But rest assured: Nobody ever listens to my suggestions anyway.

[The Red Baron]

yes, the radar is powerful?

Yes, I think it is too powerful. That's why I'm making these suggestions.

But rest assured: Nobody ever listens to my suggestions anyway.

heh, I know the feeling. But I still have to disagree with you. Yes, the radar is powerful, but not too powerful. how can it be too powerful? Its not a weapon, but a tool. My radar does not directly, effect you. My radar enables me to be a more efficient and lethal player. But there is not a direct influence, from my radar, to you. I have to use the radar, in order for you to feel its effect.

The radar is only a tool my friend, not a weapon. Its not something like world sized SW. I'm for limiting weapons, but not tools.